JA: Greetings. I am finally getting back to you after a long time.
I have been occupied with posting articles on various issues.
I must admit that when I got your response (in green), I was disappointed. Your Open Letter
to Congress has nothing to do with abstract theology, so I decided to dialogue with you.
Most people want to know how to live to the fullest. They really do not care about these
doctrinal disputes or differences.
Your first three points call into question the reliability and
authenticity of the Bible. You say that Bible scholars admit there are many contradictions
in it. You link to "Sullivan County." I am not sure who the webmaster is, but he
does not seem to be a reputable scholar. In any case, these harsh critics of the Bible
exist. This is the unpleasant part of the Enlightenment. When or if an equally demanding
Enlightenment hits Islamic countries, the Quran will undergo
such criticism (see the very next section).
However, I can find equally reputable scholars who say that the Bible is reliable and accurate.
For example, these two high-level scholars from an earlier generation, F. F. Bruce,
citing Sir Frederic Kenyon, conclude the following:
To sum up, we may quote the verdict of the late Sir Frederic Kenyon, a scholar whose
authority to make pronouncements on ancient MSS [manuscripts] was second to none:
"The interval then between the data of original composition and the
earliest extant evidence become so small to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation
for any doubt that the Scripture have come down to ussubstantially as they were
written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of
the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established."
(Source)
These two current scholars reach the same conclusion:
The overwhelming majority of the text of the Greek New Testament is firmly
established. Where uncertainties remain, in no case is any doctrinal matter at issue.
(D.A. Carson and Douglas J. Moo, An Introduction to the New Testament, 2nd
ed. Zondervan, 2005, p. 30)
Is the Quran pure and uncorrupted?
By criticizing the Bible, you allow me to challenge the Quran. Muslims believe
that it reached earth from Allah in an uncorrupted state and remained that way.
However, plain facts contradict this belief. Here are four examples, which could be
multiplied.
First, this hadith from Bukhari (a highly reliable collector and editor of
hadith) says that Uthman burned different versions of the Quran.
. . . ‘Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had
copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in
fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.
(Bukhari)
It is one thing to prepare the final version (if one exists of the Quran),
but burning alternate versions? This is wrong. What was Uthman afraid of?
Second, this hadith says that the Quran was recited seven different ways:
Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel recited the Qur'an to me in one way.
Then I requested him (to read it in another way), and continued asking him to recite it
in other ways, and he recited it in several ways till he ultimately recited it in seven
different ways."
(Bukhari;
and see the longer hadith below this one.)
Would these seven recitations produce different version of the Quran?
Other hadiths (see the linked articles, below) reveal that four different reciters spoke
the Quran in different versions. Is this why Uthman was so anxious to burn the different
versions? For more information see this article
and this one.
Third, a sound hadith from Sahih Muslim says that an entire sura
(chapter), which had over a hundred verses, is missing from the Quran.
. . . We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to
(Surah) Bara'at [Sura 9:129, which has 129 verses]. I have, however, forgotten it with the
exception of this which I remember out of it:" If there were two valleys full of
riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the
stomach of the son of Adam but dust." (Muslim
no. 2286;
see the four hadiths above this one)
Fourth and finally, this is an interesting modern discovery: a "buried" version of the Quran.
In 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a, in Yemen,
laborers working in a loft between the structure's inner and outer roofs stumbled across a
remarkable gravesite, although they did not realize it at the time . . . in this case the
resting place for, among other things, tens of thousands of fragments from close to a
thousand different parchment codices of the Koran, the Muslim holy scripture. In some
pious Muslim circles it is held that worn-out or damaged copies of the Koran must be
removed from circulation; hence the idea of a grave, which both preserves the sanctity of
the texts being laid to rest and ensures that only complete and unblemished editions of
the scripture will be read . . .
Since the early 1980s more than 15,000 sheets of the Yemeni Korans have
painstakingly been flattened, cleaned, treated, sorted, and assembled; they now sit
("preserved for another thousand years," Puin says) in Yemen's House of
Manuscripts, awaiting detailed examination. That is something the Yemeni authorities have
seemed reluctant to allow, however. "They want to keep this thing low-profile, as we
do too, although for different reasons," Puin explains. "They don't want
attention drawn to the fact that there are Germans and others working on the Korans. They
don't want it made public that there is work being done at all, since the Muslim
position is that everything that needs to be said about the Koran's history was said a
thousand years ago." (Source)
Why won’t the authorities allow its publication? What are they hiding?
Please see this webpage that has many links
to articles and hadiths on the corruptibility of the Quran. I wrote this
article explaining that Muhammad borrows from the apocryphal gospels even though he claims
explicitly that he received this specific information about events in young Mary’s life
(and, by extension, in young Jesus’ life) from revelation alone Sura 3:44.
It is true that a few New Testament authors borrow a line or two from non-Christian Greek
poets, but they never claimed that they got this specific information only from Gabriel
or only from a heightened state of ecstatic revelatory and sweaty
inspiration.
Does culture influence sacred texts?
Next, you say in point no. 2 that "the Bible was written by ordinary people
who were influenced by the prevailing culture of their time." Apparently, you
believe that this is abnormal and calls into question the reliability of the Bible, as if
culture taints it. You seem to imply that the Quran was not influenced by its prevailing
seventh-century culture in Arabia. In reply, however, by criticizing the Bible in this
way, I am permitted to point out the obvious about the Quran. The implication that the
Quran has not been influenced by culture is simply not true. For example, Sura 5:38 says
that the male or female thief should have his or her hand cut off. Ibn Kathir, a respected
classical commentator, says the following about the gruesome punishment and its cultural
origins:
Allah commands and decrees that the hand of the thief, male or female be
cut off. During the time of Jahiliyyah [ignorance before Islam], this was also the
punishment for the thief, and Islam upheld this punishment. (Tafir Ibn Kathir
(abridged), translated and edited by Safiur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri, Darussalam, 2000,
vol. 3, p. 172)
So it seems, after all, that the Quran does not rise above its own culture,
but retains a severe punishment.
Also, Muhammad raided Meccan caravans. He was following his culture, which
engaged in this practice all the time. The Quran in the Medinan suras that often call
for war reflects Muhammad’s Sunnah, which in turn reflects seventh-century Arabia
(see Sura 8 in its entirety, which deals with the Battle of Badr, merely another raid,
but on a larger scale).
Point 4a-f
In these subpoints you ask a flurry of questions and throw in many terms
and concepts. So this section of my reply is the longest.
What does "begetting" mean?
Your challenges about this term rest on old ideas, not modern research.
The Greek word at issue (see for example John 3:16) is monogens. Traditionally,
this has been translated as "only begotten." However, new lexical research in
the twentieth century on this word in the ancient Greek world concludes that the second
half of the word (-gens) does not refer to "beget," but to
"class" or "kind." Now when we add mono- back to -gens,
the word most accurately means "one-of-a-kind" or "unique" or "in
a class by itself or himself."
In relation to the Sonship of Jesus, the most accurate meaning reads:
"one-of-a-kind Son" or "unique Son" or "the Son in a class by
himself." This is why the translation called the New International Version (NIV) has
in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only [monogens]
Son." The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) has for the same verse . . . "only
[monogens] Son." And the margin of the New American Standard Bible (NASB) reads:
"unique, only one of His kind" for the same Greek word.
Thus, the notion of "begetting" is removed from the Sonship of Jesus,
and so are the complications that you raise. Jesus is the one-of-a-kind Son who is
in a class all by himself. He is not begotten, except possibly in the context of his
resurrection and exaltation after his ascension (see Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5, 5:5,
which quote Psalm 2:7 that speaks of a coronation, an apt description of Christ’s ascension).
He has lived eternally with the Father, without beginning. This is simple. This brings us
back directly to the inspired New Testament, without having to appeal to and depend on
later human opinions.
Source: Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology (Zondervan, 2000), pp. 1233-34.
See this webpage that in turn links
to other articles on the issue of "begotten."
However, you seem to question the theology of some theologians and Christians
("mainstream Christians" is your wording). Perhaps you mean those in
early church Councils (e.g. Nicea in AD 325), such as Athanasius, (d. 373), or
specifically Pope John Paul II (your point no. 4d); the members of the Council of Nicea
seem to have understood monogens as containing the idea of "begotten."
Therefore, allow me to explain the term in three steps, assuming, only for the sake of
discussion, that "begotten" really is contained in the Greek word.
First, words may take on different meanings and nuances in different
contexts. For example, the word "apology" in one context means an expression of
remorse or regret, or an admission of error. Thus, "I offer an apology for offending
you." But in another context "apology" can mean defense. "I offer an
apology of my religion." These two meanings (admission of errors vs. defense against
errors) go in opposite directions. This shows how fluid language and even one word can be,
from one context to the next.
Second, this fluidity can be applied to "begotten." It can have
different meanings or nuances, depending on the context. Down here on earth,
"begotten" has a temporal meaning. A man begets a son, who has a beginning.
However, in the eternal realm, where God lives, the word takes on the quality of eternity.
This means that the Father’s begetting of the Son of God does not have a beginning.
This unique relationship between Father and Son has always existed from eternity past and
will exist into eternity future, according to the full teaching of the entire New
Testament.
Third, you require me to explain the words of a much greater Christian and
theologian than myself—the late Pope John Paul II. You quote him in your point no.
4d, and ask me if his words make sense to me. They do, and here is my explanation,
tentatively.
You quote Pope John Paul II as follows:
"The virginal conception, by excluding human fatherhood, affirms that
Jesus' only father is the heavenly Father and that the Son's being born in time reflects
his eternal birth: the Father, who begot the Son in eternity, also begets him in time
as a man."
If I understand this man of God, he seems to create an analogy.
(Note the word "reflects," as in proposition A reflects or is similar to proposition B.)
It compares the Father-Son relationship in the eternal realm (heaven) and this same
relationship in the temporal realm (earth). The eternal "begetting" without
beginning "reflects" the earthly "begetting" when Jesus takes on
his humanity, by the Spirit of God, in the womb of Mary. In both contexts, the Father
begets the Son. But all analogies are imperfect, so we should not take this one too far.
Essential doctrines should not be based on them. It seems merely that the Pope discusses
the Father-Son relationship in its unique and one-of-a-kind mode because it existed
in heaven before Jesus was born of Mary, and it still exists in heaven after Jesus’
ascension back into heaven after his resurrection.
These two realms (heaven and earth) resolve the alleged contradictions
that you raise in the word "begetting." On earth it has a beginning. In heaven
it does not have a beginning, but it is eternal, in the unique and eternal Father-Son
relationship, according to the full teaching of the New Testament.
But please note: This quick comment on the late Pope’s ideas is only
tentative, not authoritative.
However, I believe that the idea of "begetting" is excluded from
monogens, so for me the complexities do not exist. Jesus is the eternal Son of
God without beginning. He has always existed alongside the Father, sharing the same
substance, essence, and being.
See my article on the Trinity here,
which links to many other articles.
Does the Quran have a mysterious mother?
Now let’s throw a challenge about the Quran at you and your fellow
scholars. By criticizing Christian doctrine (which is not part of your original Open
Letter to Congress), you allow me to challenge Islamic doctrine. What happens if we take a
literal reading of some passages about Allah and the Quran? Does the Quran have a
mysterious mother? I have edited this excerpt from two colleagues at answeringislam.org.
Incidentally, the Saudi authorities have blocked this Christian site from
entering the internet in your country. This is odd. If Islam is so awesome and it contains
the Final and Best Revelation, then what is your government hiding from your fellow
citizens? It seems that they would remain within Islam no matter what this Christian
website teaches. The Truth of Islam would keep them in.
In any case, Sam Shamoun and Jochen Katz write about the assertion in the
Quran that Allah must have a wife or consort in order to produce a son or an offspring.
They begin:
The Holy Bible often calls Jesus the Son of God and states that God is his
Father, titles or expressions denoting a purely spiritual relationship between God and
Christ. These terms have absolutely no sexual or carnal overtones whatsoever, i.e. they do
not imply that God had sex with a woman (specifically Mary) who then gave birth to Jesus
his Son.
The Quran, however, assumes that the only way for God to be the Father of
Jesus (or of anyone else) is through sexual procreation, that God can only become a Father
by having a wife with whom he has sex. This is the main argument of the Quran against
believing that God has a Son.
The Quran emphatically states:
And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and
they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and
highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens
and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself)
created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101 Shakir
. . .
The argument looks like this, in modus tollens form [denying the
consequent or the "then" clause in premise one]:
(1) If Allah has a son, then he must have (had sex with) a consort or wife.
(2) Allah does not have a consort (i.e. this is impossible for whatever reason).
(3) Therefore the claim that Allah has a son is refuted.
Now let’s apply the same unsound logic to the Quran and its
mysterious mother. Shamoun and Katz continue:
There are several places where the Quran makes mention of the "mother
of the book" (omm al-kitab), and in one place the Quran even claims
that this is where it originated:
God doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother
of the Book (ommu alkitabi). S. 13:39 Y. Ali
Verily, we have made it an Arabic Qur'an; haply ye will have some sense.
And it is in the Mother of the Book (ommi alkitabi)with Us,-
high and wise. S. 43:3-4 Palmer
The mother of the book which contains the Quran is with God, an important
point for our discussion as we shall shortly see. In another place it is said that
the Quran’s clear verses are actually "the mother of the book":
He it is who has revealed to thee the Book, of which there are some verses
that are decisive, they are the mother of the Book (ommu alkitabi); and others
ambiguous; but as for those in whose hearts is perversity, they follow what is ambiguous,
and do crave for sedition, craving for (their own) interpretation of it; but none know the
interpretation of it except God. But those who are well grounded in knowledge say, 'We
believe in it; it is all from our Lord; but none will remember save those who possess
minds. S. 3:7 Palmer
Hence, the Quran originates from the mother of the book and its clear
verses are the mother of the book, which means that the Quran has at least two mothers!
Now if the logic of the Quran is true, then this means that the mother of
the book has a spouse with whom she has sex. After all, how can she be a mother, or have
any children, if she has no husband, no spouse? We can even reword Sura 6:101 in the
following manner:
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could She (this
unknown mysterious woman) be the Quran’s mother if she has no consort…?
But since this mysterious woman does have offspring [the Quran], then she
must have a husband, and here is where the real problem lies for Muslims: Since the Quran
is believed to be the word of Allah, which makes him the source of the Quran, then this
means that Allah is its father and the husband of the Quran’s mother! And since
Muslims believe that the Quran is the uncreated speech of Allah, then this means that its
mother is also uncreated. The Quran cannot exist before its mother which means that if the
Quran is eternal then so is its mother, also implying that Allah has always been married!
After all, whose wife could the Quran’s mother be if Allah is the only other entity
that existed before creation?
Again, note the logic behind this:
(4) If the Quran has a mother, then the Quran must be an offspring.
(5) But if the Quran is an offspring, then it must have a mother and a father.
(6) If it has a mother and a father, then they must have had sex to produce the offspring.
(7) Suras 13:39, 43:3-4, and 3:7 say that the Quran indeed has a mother.
(8) Therefore, its mother and father must have had sex.
(9) Hence, the best candidate for the father and the mother of the Quran is Allah and an
eternal mysterious mother with whom he had sex.
The readers should be able to see from our brief critique and examination
why the Quran’s claim that God cannot have children is seriously flawed. If God can
have children only through sexual intercourse, by having a wife, then the Quran is in
grave trouble [because of] this fallacious logic . . .
The Muslim will obviously contend that the expressions "mother
of," "son of" are not being used in a physical, sexual sense, but in a
purely metaphorical or spiritual sense, at least in these specific citations. The Muslim
may argue that sexual activity is not necessary to be a child or parent in the sense
intended by these various Quranic references. These terms can carry a broader range of
meaning than merely the physical, carnal one and the context must therefore determine the
specific application.
But this explanation only proves that the Quran is wrong and its reasoning
is invalid. After all, if it is possible for someone to be a parent or child in a way that
doesn’t require sexual procreation, then this means it is also possible for God to be
a spiritual parent without having to engage in sex or needing a physical wife. This
basically means that it doesn’t follow from the Quran's premises that God must have a
wife or engage in sexual activity in order to be a father or have a son; and since he has
no sexual relations and has no wife he cannot, therefore, be a parent.
The Quran’s argument against God’s Fatherhood or Christ’s
Sonship is flat out wrong . . .
Here is the correct understanding, in a logically valid chain argument,
which the Quran completely misses:
(10) If God is Spirit (John 4:24), then he did not have to have sex with a
consort or a wife to be a Father.
(11) If Father God did not have to have sex with a consort or wife, then he has a
nonphysical, spiritual, and eternal relationship with his offspring.
(12) The Word of God says that God is Spirit.
(13) Therefore, he has a nonphysical, spiritual, and eternal relationship with his
offspring—the Son of God, the blessed and holy Lord Jesus.
(Source)
Here is my concluding comment on the entire excerpt. This is what happens when we
take things too literally. The Quran does not literally have a mother who had sexual
relations with Allah; in the same way the eternal Father was not required to have sex
to "beget" the eternal Son of God. Therefore, we should not take our sacred texts
too literally.
Why do millions of Africans leave Islam and convert to Christianity?
You write in point no. 4 that the complexities about the Sonship of Christ
may drive some Christians "into the fold of Islam." In reply, however, this may
be true for some people, but I do not believe that most ordinary people are concerned
about abstract doctrines. Instead, they want to know how to live in peace, and this is
what Islam is all about, isn’t it?
This desire to live life without harassment may explain why
six million
African Muslims are leaving
Islam and converting to Christianity each year.
Islam is a burdensome, severe, and harsh religion. The following legal decrees,
policies, and practices demonstrate Islam’s excesses. They go outside of mere
verbal assertions and mental beliefs and high-minded theology. Every one of them
comes from the Quran itself, followed by chapter and verse.
Anyone who accuses someone else of sexual sin must bring four witnesses;
if not, the accuser gets eighty lashes (24:4);
Husbands are a degree above their wives in status (2:228); reliable hadiths
say
that the majority
of the inhabitants of hell are women due only because of their
"harshness
and ingratitude," not because of their numerical majority around the globe;
A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female (4:11);
A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony because
she may "forget" (2:282). Reliable hadiths say this law is based on
the "deficiency
of a woman’s mind";
A man may divorce his wife merely if he says "I divorce you" three times (2:229).
This verse is baffling because it does not say explicitly "three times."
But Islamic law interprets it in this way.
A wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man,
they have sex, and then this second man divorces her (2:230);
Muhammad has special marriage privileges (as many women as he desires),
which only he enjoys (33:50);
A Muslim man may be polygamous with up to four wives (4:3);
Muhammad gets twenty percent from his seventy-four raids and wars in ten years
in Medina (8:1, 41);
Mature men may marry and consummate their marriage with prepubescent girls (65:4);
Slavery is endorsed: Muhammad himself
traded
in slaves and owned black slaves;
and Muslim men may have sex with slave-girls (4:24; 47:4; 23:5-6; 70:29-30);
Sexual sinners must be whipped a hundred times (24:2), and sound hadiths say
adulterers and homosexuals must be executed;
Critics of Islam and Muslims may be killed (33:59-61);
The Quran endorses and celebrates the massacre of Jewish men and
pubescent boys and the enslavement of the women and children (33:25-27);
Jihadists buy status in this life and in the afterlife (4:74; 4:95-96;
9:38-44, 86-87, and 111; 61:10-11);
Polytheists in the Arabian Peninsula had to convert or die (9:5);
Muhammad is the first to launch his own Crusade
long before western Europeans responded with their own (9:29).
This list is all about physical acts here on earth, not about abstract doctrines
like "begetting." These acts and legal decrees can be measured and evaluated
with our own eyes and sound reason, and how do they come out? Not very well,
to say the least.
Further, it may be fairly asked: Did Jesus and his Apostles and the New Testament
authors say or do these things? Not even close. Therefore, if a Christian wants to enter
into "the fold of Islam," then that is his prerogative. But maybe this list
will tell him that abstract doctrines per se do not harm or maim or kill people. But
the implementation of this list does exactly that.
If you or the readers suspect that these verses have been taken out of
context, you and they may click on the following articles that in turn have long and
several supporting articles behind each item on the list:
Does the Old Testament command some severe punishments? Yes, but go
here to find out why they no longer apply in the New Testament.
Can someone even half-divine be killed?
Finally, you ask this question as if the answer is self-evident (point no. 4e).
Indeed, this is easy to answer, but not in a way that satisfies certain Muslims. I
see nothing in divinity that precludes the Ultimate Sacrifice, if and only if the Deity
willingly and voluntarily lays down his life.
Jesus himself says that he did not come to earth to be served and pampered:
. . . The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give
his life as a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:28)
In these next two verses he says that he willingly lays down his life.
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take
it up again.18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have
authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again (John 10:17-18)
Christianity does not put God so far up in heaven that he lives in a silver box
or golden cage, isolated. It is risky to assert that God cannot do something. Limiting
the limitless Deity is misguided. I believe that the Son of God freely choosing to
step down in time and space is the most blessed doctrine in all of Christian theology.
He did this out of his good will and his powerful love. I would never give up this
miracle and historical reality. It benefits humanity greatly.
Thus, for me, there is nothing inherent in God’s nature that blocks him from
stepping down into time and space, showing us a better way and redeeming us and offering
us the gift of eternal life with him. Nothing inherent in his nature? If someone has
a prior belief that God could not do this, then what is his starting point for his
belief? The Quran? But the New Testament says that the Incarnation happened. So we have
two sacred texts that have competing doctrines.
How do we break the deadlock? For me, the answer is not found in abstract theology,
but in practical matters down here on earth. And the long list of policies taken from
the Quran in the previous section and the four linked articles (that support the list)
resolve the conflict and answer the debate. If Islam and its foundation—the
Quran—are harsh and excessive in practical matters, then why should I listen
to the Quran in abstract doctrines? I don’t listen to it.
Points 5 and 6
Is the Enlightenment perfect?
These two points indicate that there is a negative or a downside to the Enlightenment.
You quote Robert Louis Wilken’s book review of Bernard Lewis’ Crisis of
Islam. Maybe Islamic countries should avoid the Enlightenment, he says. In reply,
no one says that the Enlightenment does not bring a backlash. The movement was huge
and diverse. It has a sting in it, perhaps many stings. But I believe that the benefits
outweigh the liabilities, especially in politics and plain, everyday life. The above
list (see "Why do millions leave Islam?") explains how the Enlightenment can
help Islam, in practical areas. We do not need revelations in a holy book that was too
deeply influenced by its seventh-century Arab culture in its laws and policies. We can
use sound reason to figure out how to divide an inheritance between a male and female,
or why husbands should never hit their wives—at any time or in any circumstance,
or why marrying and having sex with prepubescent girls is wrong at all times.
Does Islam deal effectively with sexual sinners?
Next, you quote Dr. Albert Mohler, who laments a lack of church discipline
and the aggressive homosexual agenda in America.
In reply, though I do not know Dr. Mohler, I have heard him on the radio.
He is allowed to preach righteousness to society and influence public policy, especially
church policy. But I can guarantee you that he would not advocate executing homosexuals.
But the prophet of Islam did this.
First, the Sunan Abu Dawud says that Ibn Abbas reports the following
about early Islam and Muhammad’s punishment of homosexuals:
. . . "If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did,
kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done"
(no. 4447).
The next one below no. 4447 says that an unmarried man who commits sodomy
should be stoned to death:
"Ibn Abbas said: if a man who is not married is seized committing
sodomy, he will be stoned to death"
(no. 4448).
Third and finally, in the hadith collection Mishkhat al-Masabih,
a compendium that brings together other hadith collections, your prophet prescribes
the punishments of being burned to death and having heavy objects thrown on guilty
homosexuals:
Ibn Abbas and Abu Huraira reported God’s messenger as saying,
"Accursed is he who does what Lot’s people did." In a version . . .
on the authority of Ibn Abbas it says that Ali [Muhammad’s cousin and son-in-law]
had two people burned and that Abu Bakr [Muhammad’s chief companion] had a wall
thrown down on them. (Trans. James Robson, Prescribed Punishments, vol. 1, p. 765)
For more information on Islam’s and Christianity’s policies on homosexuality,
go to this article.
I do not deny that the West has not reached moral perfection. The West indeed has
its share of problems. However, you seem to believe that without the Enlightenment
of any kind and with Islam’s guidance in a society, problems vanish away. But
this webpage
has further links to homosexual activity in Saudi Arabia, the land of the two Holy Mosques
(in Mecca and Medina).
To cite only one specific example from the previous webpage, on April 7, 2005, it
was reported
that Saudi Arabia sentenced more than 100 men to prison or flogging for "gay
conduct."
On or about March 26, a Jeddah court, meeting in a closed session in which
defense attorneys were excluded, sentenced 31 of the men to prison for six months to one
year, and to 200 lashes each, for unreported offenses. Four other men received two
years’ imprisonment and 2,000 lashes. Police released more than 70 of the men not
long after their initial arrest; reports in the Saudi press suggested that personal
contacts with the government had intervened on their behalf. However, on April 3, police
summoned the 70 men back to a local police station and informed them that they had been
sentenced to one year’s imprisonment.
Is whipping and executing and imprisoning sinners in order to force and impose external
righteousness the best policy? "If only we could catch and punish more sinners,
then we could teach them a lesson! Then the others will straighten up! We could eliminate
the problem! In fact, let’s kill them after a judge orders their execution!"
This seems to be the yearning of many Muslims whose ideas I read online or in print media.
However, people need to change from the inside out. Forcing holiness on to people
does not work in the long run and for everybody.
Conclusion
Mr. Al-Buthe, please consider this. You may believe that Saudi Arabia does not want
nor need all of the Enlightenment (even Islam’s own version—today—not
a thousand years ago), but the long list of practical policies (see "Why do millions
leave Islam?" above) tells me two things:
(1) The Quran absorbed too much of its culture. If it improved on seventh-century
Arabia, then it did not go far enough for a religion that claims universality.
(2) When a religion (church or mosque) becomes the government, it tends to oppress
people. It is better to let people live in freedom, even if they abuse it. That is
the lesson of history in the West. I admit that the West has gone too far in decadence,
but if we cannot strike the perfect balance between freedom and limitations, then
surely you agree that freedom is better than repression, don’t you? Then the
citizens of your country can breathe the fresh air of liberty without being harassed
by religious police that stalk
your country.
I will be examining particular texts that seem to point to the punishment of unbelievers being an ongoing, never-ending experience of torment. This is known as the doctrine of eternal/everlasting conscious torment (ECT).
Synoptic Gospels
The Lord Jesus often described the punishment of the wicked as a “place” of
The Gospels and Acts speak of God sending an angel of the Lord to make his purpose known to specific individuals:
“Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord (angelos Kyriou) appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise and take the young child and his mother,
