Shabir's latest work is aimed at Jehovah's Witnesses and their evangelistic tactics. Although, we do
not agree with Jehovah Witness teaching most of Shabir's attacks are aimed at the authority of the
Holy Bible and the credibility of the apostle Paul. It is precisely for these reasons that we felt
a response was necessary. Let us proceed to Mr. Ally's arguments
Question # 1 : Is 100% of the Bible inspired by God?
Their Answer:
They will say, "Yes! All scripture is inspired of God." They will also quote from the Bible
where it says exactly that in Paul's 2nd Letter to Timothy, chapter 3, verse 16. They may then
smile happily because they showed you the answer straight from the Bible.
The Truth:
The verse they show you is quoted without regard for its real meaning. Few people really
ever think before they quote. If they find something that seems close to what they believe
there is no stopping them from quoting it. Let us see now what the passage really means.
Amazingly, Shabir is guilty of the very precise thing he accuses others of doing. Often
times Shabir quotes passages out of their intended context and disregards their real
meaning. Hence, when Shabir finds something that seems close to what he believes there
is no stopping him from quoting it.
Shabir:
To really understand the passage we have to know who wrote it, what he
meant by it, and what he expected his first readers to understand by it.
Response:
Does Shabir really think he can understand the passage in light of his presupposition that
the Holy Bible cannot be the unadulterated word of God? Does he think he can actually
tell Christians what the Bible means? It is the same as if a Christian were to take a
passage of the Quran and proceed to tell Shabir the real meaning of it. Would Shabir
except it?
Shabir:
Who wrote it? Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Paul wrote that passage in a
letter to his student Timothy.
What did Paul mean by `all scripture'? Did he mean `the whole Bible'? Many
people assume so. But Paul did not say that. He did not say, "the entire Bible
is inspired." He said "All scripture is inspired." So back to our question. What
did Paul mean by "all scripture"?
Some people may say, "But `all scripture' means `all scripture,' don't you
understand?" Say, "Should I understand that the Hindu Scripture, the
Buddhist Scripture, the Muslim Scripture, the Christian Scripture and all other
scripture is inspired by God?"
They will say, "No, because Paul would not have meant all that." But that
makes us ask again, "What exactly did Paul mean?"
Response:
Shabir's logic is faulty from the start since for Paul "all scripture" meant all that
the God of Israel had revealed and inspired through his prophets and messengers. The God
believed by Hindus, Buddhists and even Muslims is not the God whom Paul had in view.
Shabir:
If at this point they say, "The whole Bible," this takes us back to the
beginning of this discussion. Just say, "I feel that we are going around in a
circle here. I have already shown that Paul never said, "The whole Bible."
Now you may need to help them understand that the verse they showed you
was read out of context. By taking the verse in isolation, they give it a
different meaning than what the author had intended. To see the proper
context, let us read the verse again, this time starting with the verse that
comes before it. Here are verses 15 and 16:
15 . . . from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make
you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. 16 All
Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching . . . (2 Timothy 3:15-16)
Except where noted, all Bible quotations in this study are from the New World
Translation of the Holy Scriptures; this is the Bible used by Jehovah's
Witnesses.
Explain to them that if they look at the previous verse (i.e. 2 Timothy 3:15)
they will realize that Paul was speaking to his student Timothy about the
scriptures which Timothy knew from his infancy. It was definitely not the
whole Bible. The whole Bible was not yet complete.
The Bible is made up of basically two sections. The first is called the Old
Testament, and the second is called the New Testament. Many books of the
New Testament section were written after Paul's death.
Paul was not telling Timothy that Timothy knew from infancy about books
which are not yet written, was he?
Response:
We really do not know who Shabir's intended audience is since his points are nothing more
than red herrings, seemingly aimed at the uninformed. An informed Christian does not use
2 Timothy 3:16-17 to establish the point that Paul had the inspiration of the New
Testament in mind when speaking to Timothy. Rather, 2 Timothy is used to show that
Holy Scripture originates from the Spirit or breath of God, or as Paul puts it, "all scripture
is theopneustos- God-breathed." Paul's point is not so much the canon, but rather the
authority of Scripture and its sufficiency in equipping the man of God for the work of
ministry.
Shabir:
To show how many books Paul was not referring to here, ask your visitors to
look at the Table of Books of the Bible which is shown in their Bible towards
the back. In their usual pocket edition published 1984, this appears on pages
1546 to 1547. Now look with them at page 1547 which displays a list of the
Christian Greek Scriptures. In that chart the approximate dates when these
books were written are shown in the 4th column. The approximate date given
for the writing of 2 Timothy is the year 65 C.E. (i.e. A.D. but contemporary
users prefer C.E. instead of A.D.). Now we can see that many books were
written much later than that. Consider this list of Books of the New Testament
together with their approximate year of authorship as given on the same chart:
Revelation 96 C.E. (A.D.)
John 98 C.E. (A.D.)
1 John 98 C.E. (A.D.)
2 John 98 C.E. (A.D.)
3 John 98 C.E. (A.D.)
Obviously, Paul was not telling Timothy to hold on to the above books which did not exist at the
time.
Response:
It is only obvious if one believes that these dates are fixed. Certain scholars such as John Robinson and William
F. Albright are of the opinion that all the NT books were completed between the years 40 and 70 A.D. In fact,
the recent discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran have led some scholars to conclude that John was
perhaps the earliest of all the Gospels seeing that much of the language he uses is similar to language used
in the writings of the Qumran community.
In light of these factors, one cannot definitely say that the Johannine writings as well as the Apocalypse of John
were definitely unknown to either Timothy or Paul due to their later dating.
Shabir:
Furthermore many other books were written too close to the year 65 C.E. for Timothy to have
been familiar with them since his infancy. I leave this for you to explore with your visitors.
Response:
Shabir again makes another mistake since Paul was not limiting the inspiration of Scriptures to only those
writings known by Timothy while in his infancy. Rather, Paul was including all the scriptures Timothy had been
familiar with from his youth up until the time of Paul's present epistle. As we shall shortly see, the inspired
writings that Timothy knew also included certain New Testament books.
Shabir:
That scripture Paul was telling Timothy about was the Old Testament, which Jehovah's
Witnesses call the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures. These ancient scriptures in the oldest form in
which they exist today are written in the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Chaldee languages.
Response:
Actually, the scripture Paul was telling Timothy about included more than just the Hebrew
Bible as the following verse from Paul's first letter to his young protg proves:
"For the Scripture says, 'Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the
grain', and 'The worker deserves his wages.'" 1 Tim. 5:18 NIV
Paul's first citation is from Deuteronomy 25:4. The second is from Luke 10:7:
"Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the
worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." Luke 10:7 NIV
Not only is Luke's writing inspired Scripture, but it is also placed on the same level of
authority as Moses' writings. Furthermore, since the consensus of NT scholarship agrees
that Luke and Acts were actually one volume and that Luke's gospel was the last of the
synoptics to have been written, this implicitly affirms that the other gospels would have
also been in circulation at that time. Presumably, Timothy would have also known these
writings as scripture. So much for Shabir's arguments.
Shabir:
A problem, however, is that Timothy was familiar with that book not in its
original languages, but in its Greek language translation (the translation of the
Old Testament into the Greek language is called the Septuagint Version).
That Greek translation was prepared about three hundred years before Christ
to enable those who could not read Hebrew to still benefit from the scriptures.
This is the version which the early Christians like Timothy were reading. And
Paul was telling him to hold on to that book.
Response:
First, how does Shabir know that Timothy only knew the Greek version of the Hebrew
Scriptures? Was he there to see what OT text Timothy had in his possession? The fact is
that many of the OT passages cited in the New Testament do not stem from any one
particular text-type. The quotations of the Hebrew Bible used by Jesus and others are a
mixture of different text traditions with some readings stemming from a version similar to
the Masoretic text, others from the Greek and still others which are similar to the
text-type used in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Shabir:
But is that a problem? Yes! A double problem. First, the translation disagrees
with the original in many points. Which should we take as the inspired book
the original or the translation? This presents a dilemma. If the Hebrew
original is inspired then the Greek translation is wrong. But if the Greek is
wrong then Paul is wrong to call it inspired unless Paul thinks that a book is
still inspired even if it contains mistakes.
Response:
Shabir confuses his readers by making the assertion that Paul was wrong for calling the
Greek version the inspired word of God when Paul NEVER EVEN MENTIONS THE
SEPTUAGINT AT ALL IN HIS WRITINGS! We challenge Shabir to show us one single
place where Paul says that the Septuagint is God-breathed, or even mentions the
Septuagint by name.
Furthermore, no two MSS are alike. This is true of the Quranic MSS as well, seeing that
there were thousands of variant readings that existed between the different Quranic
codices. For Shabir to then say that the variant readings of the Septuagint and the
traditional Hebrew Text implies that the Greek contains errors is simply dishonest and
unscholarly. No honest textual critic would label these variants as errors or assume that
because there are variants between the Hebrew and the Greek, therefore the Greek
version is wrong and is to be discarded.
Finally, Shabir fails to inform his readers that it was the Jews, both during and after the
birth of Christ, who held to the authority and inspiration of both the Greek and the
Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Bible. The following citations are taken from
Glenn
Miller's article:
"The Talmud has this fascinating passage (Megilla 9a,b) in which we read
(Soncino):
"MISHNAH. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOOKS [OF THE
SCRIPTURE] AND TEFILLIN AND MEZUZAHS SAVE THAT THE
BOOKS MAY BE WRITTEN IN ANY LANGUAGE WHEREAS TEFILLIN
AND MEZUZAHS MAY BE WRITTEN ONLY IN ASSYRIAN. R. SIMEON
B. GAMALIEL SAYS THAT BOOKS [OF THE SCRIPTURE] ALSO WERE
PERMITTED [BY THE SAGES] TO BE WRITTEN ONLY IN GREEK.
'R. SIMEON B. GAMALIEL SAYS THAT BOOKS [OF THE SCRIPTURE]
ALSO ARE PERMITTED TO BE WRITTEN ONLY IN GREEK. R. Abbahu
said in the name of R. Johanan: The halachah follows R. Simeon b. Gamaliel.
R. Johanan further said: What is the reason of R. Simeon b. Gamaliel?
Scripture says, God enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem;
[this means] that the words of Japheth shall be in the tents of Shem. But why
not say [the words of] Gomer and Magog? - R. Hiyya b. Abba replied: The
real reason is because it is written, Let God enlarge [yaft] Japheth: implying,
let the chief beauty [yafyuth] of Japheth be in the tents of Shem.
"Bar-Ilan gives this explanation of this passage [HI:MIKRA:32]:
"The languages commonly written in the land of Israel were: 'Old' and
'Square' Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Nabatean, Syriac, Tadmorite and
Mandaic. It was forbidden to write the Tora in any language but Hebrew in the
'Assyrian' (square) script, although there were Sages who permitted the Tora,
and even tefillin and mezuzot to be written in Greek, WHICH WERE
NEVERTHELESS CONSIDERED HOLY (M. Megilla 1:8; B.T. Megilla
9a)." (emphasis ours)
The article goes on to say:
"Josephus claims to have based his account on the Hebrew text of the sacred
writings (Ant. I, 5). This claim appears to hold good for the Hexateuch. In the
later books of the bible, however, he has clearly consulted the Septuagint."
[HI:IIW:112-113].
"Josephus also used other Greek translations than the LXX, most notably the
proto-Lucian texts [WTOT:60,n.38].
"He also praises the pagan king, who received the Greek translation of the
Pentateuch (Ant 1.10-13):
"I found, therefore, that the second of the Ptolemies was a king who was
extraordinarily diligent in what concerned learning and the collection of books;
that he was also peculiarly ambitious to procure a translation of our law, and of
the constitution of our government therein contained, into the Greek tongue.
(11) Now Eleazar, the high priest, one not inferior to any other of that dignity
among us, did not envy the forenamed king the participation of that
advantage, which otherwise he would for certain have denied him, but that he
knew the custom of our nation was, to hinder nothing of what we esteemed
ourselves from being communicated to others. (12) Accordingly, I thought it
became me both to imitate the generosity of our high priest, and to suppose
there might even now be many lovers of learning like the king; for he did not
obtain all our writings at that time; but those who were sent to Alexandria as
interpreters, gave him only the books of the law, (13) while there were a vast
number of other matters in our sacred books.
"This mixture of textual elements in Josephus is noted in the ABD (s.v.
"Josephus"):
"An important question centers around the issue of the biblical text that
Josephus had at his disposal. It is important because the answer would help
shed significant light on the state of the text in 1st-century Palestine, almost a
millennium before our first extant complete Hebrew manuscript. Josephus
seems to have had in his possession texts in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek;
and he varied in his use of them from biblical book to book. In view of the fact
that in Josephus' time there were a number of divergent Hebrew and Greek
texts of the Bible, we cannot be sure which version he used at any given time,
especially since he usually paraphrased and elaborated rather than translated.
Nor must we discount the possibility that Josephus followed a tradition
independent of both the MT and the LXX, as may be seen from the fact that
he agrees with Pseudo-Philo in some places that diverge from both the MT
and the LXX.
"The fact that Josephus was himself writing in Greek would make it seem
likely that his chief textual source was the LXX, especially since he cited it as
a precedent for presenting the history of the Jews to a non-Jewish audience
(Ant 1. Proem 3 10-12) and since he devoted so much space paraphrasing the
account of the translation given in Let. Aris. (Ant 12.2.1-15 11-118), hardly
what one would expect in a work which is essentially a political and military
rather than a cultural and religious history of the Jews. And yet, the very fact
that he paraphrased the Bible in Greek would seem to indicate that he hoped
to improve on that rendering, since there would hardly be much point
otherwise in a new version. Hence it is not surprising that where the style of
the LXX is more polished, as in the Additions to Esther or in 1 Esdras, he
adheres more closely to its text. And yet, to have ignored the LXX, in view of
the tremendous regard in which that version was held, would have been looked
upon as an attempt to hide something. Nevertheless, even when Josephus
agrees with the LXX, this is not necessarily an indication that he had the LXX
text before him, since he may have incorporated an exegetical tradition which
had been known earlier to the translators of the LXX. Finally, the biblical
texts found at Qumran indicate that the differences between the Hebrew and
the Greek texts WERE NOT SO GREAT AS HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY
THOUGHT.
"As a result of this liberal tendency, three distinct recensions and one
mixed text type emerged during this period (c. 400 B.C. to c. A.D. 70). The
three text types already known from the LXX, the Samaritan Pentateuch, and
the text preserved by the Masoretes--the textus receptus were corroborated
by the finds at Qumran. Here the Hebrew text lying behind the Greek
translation, the Jewish text type adopted and adapted by the Samaritans for
their sectarian purposes, and the textus receptus are all represented.
"The confusion of text types in Palestine at this time is reflected in the
citations from the OT in the NT, the Apocrypha, and the rabbinic traditions.
The NT shares readings with the received text, Samar., LXX, Targ. Onkelos,
Sirach, Testimonia, Florilegium, and Theod.
"In addition to rabbinic traditions about the textual emendations of the scribes
cited above, other rabbinic tradition tells of the need for "book correctors" in
Jerusalem attached to the temple and even of divergent readings in
Pentateuchal scrolls kept in the temple archives. Moreover, collations made
from the Codex Severus and preserved by medieval rabbis show variants from
the textus receptus in the scroll taken to Rome by Titus in A.D. 70.
"At the same time, the biblical quotations in the rabbinic literature also
differ from time to time from MT, both in direct quotations and in variants
underlying the derashah, 'sermon." (emphasis ours)
The argument continues...
Shabir:
A second problem is that the Septuagint Greek version contains seven more
books than the Hebrew version. These seven books are included in the
Catholic Bible but not in the Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible.
But they were included in the Scriptures which Timothy knew from childhood.
And Paul said all of it is inspired.
If Paul is right here, then Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong. But if Jehovah's
Witnesses are right, then Paul's words are wrong even though they are found
in the Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible.
Response:
Again, how does Shabir know that the original Septuagint contained the 7 disputed books
of the apocrypha seeing that no complete Greek version of the Septuagint exists from the
first century or even before the birth of Christ? It is true that the Church included certain
apocryphal writings in the canon of their Greek OT Bible but this was done after the first
century and not all held to the authority of these writings since fathers like Jerome
disputed their authenticity. It seems that Shabir needs to be more careful in his statements
since he commits gross mistakes in most of his writings.
Shabir:
The truth is that neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament is 100%
from God. But if you believe Paul, then you have to understand that Paul was
saying only that the Greek Septuagint Old Testament is inspired. Paul did not
say more than this, and it would be wrong to say you believe in the man and
then put words into his mouth.
Many of Jehovah's Witnesses unknowingly do exactly that. They believe so
much in Watchtower teachings that they assume those teachings must be
found in the Bible. Unfortunately, the Bible often disagrees with Watchtower
teachings. What we are discussing here is one example of this. Although the
Watchtower teaches that the Bible is 100% inspired, the Bible says only that
its Old Testament is inspired. The Bible does not say that its entire New
Testament section is inspired. If Jehovah's Witnesses chose to believe what
they believe, they must realize that it is a man-made teaching.
Response:
We only wish that Shabir practiced what he preaches since he does precisely what he
accuses others of doing. Shabir puts into the mouth of the apostle Paul words that never
appear in the Holy Bible and then proceeds to rebut them. This is a classic example of a
straw man argument, putting words into your opponent's mouth and then proceed to
tear down the imagined allegations.
Furthermore, as we have already indicated Paul's citation on the inspiration of Scripture
was not limited to the books of the OT, but also included portions of the NT as well.
Shabir:
The Bible does not teach that the entire New Testament is inspired. And that
is a very significant part of the Bible.
Nor does the Bible teach that the Hebrew text of the Old Testament is
inspired. Paul's statement quoted above only proves that the Greek Version is
inspired. But Jehovah's Witnesses do not follow the Greek Version because
they realize it would make no sense to disregard the original and follow a
translation. So they rightly choose the Hebrew text. But this choice disagrees
with what Paul says in their Bible!
Help them out of this confusion. Tell them about Islam with love.
The Qur'an says that the entire Qur'an is from Allah (see surah 3:7).
Response:
While it is true that the Holy Bible does not say that the entire canon of the NT is inspired,
there is also no place in scripture where the inspiration of the 27 NT books is denied.
Furthermore, there is not a single reference in the entire Quran where it states that only
the present canon of 114 chapters or suras make up the revealed word of God. This is
something that Shabir must take on faith alone since he has no Quranic verse to support
his belief that these 114 chapters alone make up the canon of the Quran.
In fact, the evidence from the earliest Muslim writings indicate that confusion existed over
whether the Quran consisted of 114, 116 or 111 chapters.
Ubayy b. Ka'b, considered the master of Quranic recitation, included two extra surahs,
al-Hafd (the Haste) and al-Khal' (the Separation) (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan, p.152-153).
The narrative continues by stating that Abu Ubaid said:
"Written in the text of Ubayy ibn Ka'b were the Fatihal-kitab (the Opening
Surah) and the Mu'awwi-thatayni (the Charm Surahs) and Allahumma innaa
nasta'iinka (the opening words of Suratul-Khal' meaning 'O Allah, we seek
your help') and Allahumma ayyaaka na'budu (the opening words of
Suratul-Hafd meaning 'O Allah, we worship you')". (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii
Ulum al-Qur'an, p.153).
Here are the two suras in their entirety:
Surat al-Hafd:
You (alone) we worship, and to You (alone) we pray and lie prostrate, and to You (alone)
we proceed and have descendants. We fear Your torture and hope for Your mercy. Truly
Your torture will overtake the infidels.
Surat al-Khal':
O Allah, You (alone) we ask for help and forgiveness. We speak appreciatingly of Your
goodness. Never do we disbelieve You. We repudiate and disbelieve anyone who follows
immorality.
So we ask Shabir the following questions. Can you produce for us a single verse stating
the extent of the canon of the Quran? There is nothing in S. 3:7 that even comes close
to dealing with the canon of the Quran. Furthermore, why is it that men such as Ubayy ibn
Ka'b included two extra chapters which both he and Ibn Abbas believed were revealed as part
of the Quran? Maybe Shabir can answer these questions.
Finally, Shabir keeps putting words in the mouth of Paul by insinuating that the latter
taught that the Greek OT version was the inspired word of God. The apostle never even
alludes to the text-type used by either himself or Timothy, so this is nothing more than a
straw man.
Question # 2 : What if I show you a verse in the Bible that claims to be not inspired?
Their answer:
There is no such verse.
The Truth:
There are many such verses. Here is an example which will become clear after
you read the following two statements found in the Bible in Paul's letter to the
Corinthians:
"To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord . . ."
(1 Corinthians 7:10).
"But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord . . ." (1 Corinthians 7:12).
Notice that in the first statement Paul claims that the Lord is speaking.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe Paul was telling the truth.
But how about the second statement? Here Paul is saying that the statement is
his very own, and that the Lord does not say it. Would Jehovah's Witnesses
please believe Paul in this statement too?
So that would mean that at least one verse of the Bible is not inspired. Then the
Bible cannot be 100% inspired by God. Perhaps 99%, or 99.9% but not 100%.
Agreed?
There are many other examples. Some books of the Old Testament claim only to
be the words of a man, while others claim to contain words of God also.
Many New Testament passages claim to be the opinion of men. Check these out:
Luke said:
"I resolved also . . . to write . . ." (The Gospel According to Luke 1:1-4).
Paul said:
"Now concerning virgins I have no command from the Lord, but I give my
opinion" (Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians 7:25).
Paul said:
"Therefore I think . . ." (1 Corinthians 7:26).
Paul said:
". . . according to my opinion" (1 Corinthians 7:40).
Paul said:
"I certainly think . . ." (1 Corinthians 7:40).
Paul said:
"See! I, Paul, am telling you . . ." (Paul's Letter to the Galatians 5:2).
But some people do not want to see. Here lies the problem.
To save space, and to focus on the point we are making, I have not quoted the above verses in
full. But the references are given so that you and your visitors can read them one at a time from
the Bible. The same result will emerge. Many verses of the Bible claim to be from man but not from
God. Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe these verses? If so, then how can they say that the Bible is
100% from God when the Bible itself says it is not?
They may say that the fact that the writers gave their opinion does not make a difference, because
their teachings agree with the rest of the Bible. This is not a good argument, for that would mean
that anything that agrees with the Bible is also inspired. Therefore if a Hindu writes a brief poem
about the importance of charity that should be taken as inspired Word of God. Do Jehovah's
Witnesses accept this?
Our point here is not that the opinions of men are good or bad. Paul and Luke quoted above may
have been teaching even things which Muslims believe in. That does not make a difference.
Many Muslim authors write about teachings which Muslims believe in. We do not call such
writings inspired Word of God, do we?
Instead, we must stress with our visitors that if they believe Paul they must also believe him when
Paul said that he was writing his own opinion; they must also believe Luke when he said that he
was writing as a result of his own resolution. Luke did not claim to be inspired to write. Look
again at what he said (quoted above).
Response:
Actually, what follows is a series of misquotations and fallacious assumptions on the part
of Shabir.
Shabir conveniently cuts out the verses in mid sentence where Paul goes on to clarify what
he actually meant. Here are the verses in their entirety and in their immediate context:
"Now about virgins; I have no command from the Lord, but I give judgment as
one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I
think it is good for you to remain as you are." 1 Corinthians 7:25-26
In light of 7:26, Paul's statements in 1 Corinthians 7:12 and 25 are not a denial of
inspiration. Rather, they constitute an acknowledgment that the Lord, while on earth, has
given no commands to the disciples in regards to these particular issues. Therefore, Paul
gave "judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy."
Being guided by the Holy Spirit, Paul could speak authoritatively and infallibly on matters
not addressed by Christ while on earth. This is precisely what Paul goes on to say at the
conclusion of his discussion:
"In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is- and I think that I too
have the Spirit of God." 1 Cor. 7:40 NIV
Paul specifically states that his decisions were not simply fallible human ones, but
commands given by the Spirit. His statement here is not a doubt on his part that he had the
Spirit, but is equivalent to someone today saying, "I think I know what I'm talking about."
Hence, Paul knows that what he says is true since it is the Spirit who is speaking through
him. This point becomes more apparent in the following verses from the very same book of
1 Corinthians:
"This is what we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words." 1 Cor. 2:13
NIV
"If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge
that WHAT I AM WRITING TO YOU IS THE LORD'S COMMAND. If he
ignores it he himself will be ignored." 1 Cor. 14:37
Furthermore, nothing in Luke's prologue denies inspiration. Christians do not believe that
inspiration entails that the writers do not carefully research matters. Rather, we believe
that the Holy Spirit guides the writers to infallibly record and include material that has
been carefully investigated, protecting them from including errors of fact. In fact, Paul
cites Luke's gospel as being both inspired scripture as well as having the same level of
authority as that of Moses' writings. (see above)
Shabir:
The point we do make here is that human writings, no matter how good and
how accurate, must not be attributed to God. Let us keep the Words of God
separate and distinct from the words of Man. Ask your visitors to read the
following verses in their Bible:
"For the thoughts of you people are not my thoughts, not are my ways your
ways," is the utterance of Jehovah. "For as the heavens are higher than the
earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your
thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
Please, let us not confuse the thoughts of men for the Words of God.
Response:
Shabir cites Isaiah 55:8-9 without mentioning the fact that God used the prophet Isaiah to
communicate the very precise words Ally cites to deny the inspiration of Paul and Luke!
Hence, God was speaking against the opinions of uninspired men. God was not referring to
prophets that he himself spoke through and inspired, men like Paul who both knew and
claimed that they were inspired by God.
Shabir:
Notice also that the letters which Paul wrote to various churches and
individuals are part of the Bible. Help your visitors to realize that the letters
which the prophet Muhammad (on whom be peace, and blessings of Allah)
dictated to various kings and leaders do not appear in the Qur'an. The Qur'an
is the Word of God. It does not contain any human writings, not even the
inspired teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) himself. The inspired teachings of
Muhammad (pbuh) are found in separate books called hadith.
Response:
Shabir assumes what he has yet to prove, namely that the Quran is not Muhammad's
words but God's. He also assumes that the hadith contain inspired sayings of Muhammad.
The claim of inspiration in and of itself does not prove inspiration. Nor does the fact that
an inspired author of scripture that never explicitly claimed inspiration deny that he was
speaking God's words to man.
Furthermore, it is not true that the Quran contains nothing but the words of God since
there are several places where it is clearly not God who is speaking:
"I have been commanded to serve the Lord of this city, Him who has
sanctified it and to whom all things belong. S. 27:91 (read verses 83-93 for
context)
The question begs to be asked if God is speaking who then is the Lord that he serves?
If it is the angels or Muhammad speaking, then the Quran cannot be considered 100%
the word of God.
Another example would be:
"We come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto him belongeth
all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between these two,
and thy Lord is never forgetful." S. 19:64
Would Shabir now say that the Quran cannot be 100% the word of God just because it
contains statements of men and angels? He must if he is to be consistent in the
methodology he uses against the Holy Bible.
Question # 3 : Was Paul inspired when he said that all scripture is inspired?
Their answer:
Of course!
The truth:
But how do they know? If you ask how they know that the Bible is inspired they say, "Because
Paul said so." Now if you ask how can we trust Paul on this they say "Because Paul's words are
in the inspired Bible and therefore Paul's words are inspired too." This is circular reasoning.
It is like a witness who defends his countryman by saying, "All men from my country are honest."
Then, when you ask why you should believe the witness, the witness replies, "Because I am a
man from my country." Obviously, this circular reasoning will not convince a thinking individual.
On the contrary, we have already seen in the previous question that Paul said many things as his
own opinion. When he said that all scriptures are inspired (2 Timothy 3:16) he may have been
right. But how can you say so for sure?
Response:
It is only circular if you create a straw man argument like Shabir does.
First, Paul is addressing someone who had already been supernaturally
convinced that what Paul said or wrote was revelation from God. Hence, there
was no need for Paul to try and prove in this letter to Timothy that he was
an inspired spokesperson of Christ. Paul, elswhere, lists the evidence
demonstrating his divine authority:
"For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has
accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience--by word and
deed, by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of
God--so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have
fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;" Romans 15:18-19 ESV
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?
Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle,
at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 9:1-2 ESV
"The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience,
with signs and wonders and mighty works." 2 Corinthians 12:12 ESV
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes
that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this:
Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are
you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by
the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you
do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith--" Galatians 3:1-5 ESV
Furthermore, it isn't just Paul who affirmed inspiration but his contemporaries
did so as well. For instance, Peter viewed Paul's writings as inspired scripture.
The apostle Peter says of Paul:
"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation,
just as our brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God
gave him. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16 NIV
Peter affirms that Paul wrote with the wisdom that God had given him, also placing
his writings on the same level of other inspired writings. In fact, Peter had just
stated earlier:
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's
own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God
as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21 NIV
Seeing that Peter just classified Paul's letters as scripture, affirming that the latter
spoke by the wisdom God had given him, bears testimony to the fact that the writings
of the latter did not originate from his own desires, but from the Holy Spirit.
Furthermore, Shabir himself must use circular argumentation in order to prove
that the Quran was revealed from God. How does Shabir know that the Quran is from God?
Because Muhammad claimed it was? Yet, how do we know that Muhammad was a prophet?
Because an illiterate man like Muhammad could not produce something like the Quran?
Hence, we prove the Quran by Muhammad and Muhammad by the Quran. Talk about circular.
Question # 4 : Did Paul know that his letters are part of the Word of God?
Their answer:
Well, y-yes (actually, not sure).
The truth:
Most people have not considered this question. The letters of Paul were collected and later made
part of the Bible without consulting Paul (Paul was, of course long dead by this time).
Response:
This is perhaps the most amazing thing Shabir has thus far said. The reason being is that
the Quran itself was never compiled in the form that we have it today during Muhammad's
lifetime. This was done only after Muhammad's death:
"Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Abu Bakr as-Siddiq sent for me when the people of
Yamama had been killed. Then Abu Bakr said (to me): "You are a wise young
man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the
Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle (saw). So you should search for (the
fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it (in one book)". By Allah! If
they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been
heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu
Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle (saw) did not do?"
Abu Bakr replied "By Allah, it is a good project". (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6,
p.477).
"It is reported ... from Ali who said: "May the mercy of Allah be upon Abu
Bakr, the foremost of men to be rewarded with the collection of the
manuscripts, for he was the first to collect (the text) between (two) covers'."
(Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.5).
It is reported ... from Ibn Buraidah who said: "The first of those to collect the
Qur'an into a mushaf (codex) was Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifah".
(as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.135).
The first collection of the Quran between two covers was done only after Muhammad's
death. Hence, in the words of Ally: "the suras recited by Muhammad were collected and
later made into the Quran as we know it now without consulting Muhammad (Muhammad
was, of course long dead by that time)."
Shabir:
But Paul himself was quite conscious that he often wrote his own opinions (see question 2). In
one case, Paul was even aware that he made an error in one of his letters which is now part of
the Bible.
Read the following passage:
I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say
that you were baptized in my name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. As for
the rest, I do not know whether I baptized anybody else (1 Corinthians 1:14:16).
It should be clear in the above passage that Paul made a mistake and then a correction. But the
mistake and the correction both remain in the Bible, Obviously, we do not object to the correction,
but what about the mistake? Is that the Word of God too? If you look at the passage again, you
will notice that Paul made the following three statements:
(a) I baptized no one else but Crispus and Gaius.
(b) Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
(c) I do not know whether I baptized anybody else.
The mistake Paul made is his first statement that he baptized no one else except two persons
named Crispus and Gaius. Then he recalled that he had also baptized the household of
Stephanas, so he made this slight correction in his next statement. But the mistaken statement is
still there. Is this inspired?
Paul's third statement shows that he is not sure of the facts:
I do not know whether I baptized anyone else (1 Corinthians 1:16).
You see, Paul is not sure who else he baptized. He cannot remember. He knows he needs to
correct his statement further by adding more names, but he cannot remember who to mention.
So the first statement was a mistake. The second statement is a slight correction to the first. The
third statement is an admission that the correction is not complete. All three remain in the Bible.
Are these Words of God?
Response:
This is the second time Shabir adds to Paul's words and then proceed to claim an error
when none exist. Where does Paul claim that he made a mistake? Shabir must break the
sentence apart in order to make the inference that Paul was in error. The sentence runs as
one continuous thread with Paul completing the point just made previously. Nowhere does
he say, "Oops I've made a mistake guys, I'm sorry. I also baptized so and so."
Again, the Christian understanding of inspiration does not deny that God's word will be
communicated through the normal method of human speech, a method that includes
hyperbole, allegory, metaphor etc. It is only when you have a mechanical view of
revelation in which the author's personality is totally canceled out that such literary
devices are not to be expected. This is the Muslim view of the Quran, that Muhammad's
personality was not involved in the revelation since the words were directly from God and
were recited precisely as revealed.
Yet, it is precisely this view of inspiration that leaves Muslims with a problem. Compare
the following verse:
"The Roman Empire has been defeated - in a land close by: But they, (even)
after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious WITHIN A FEW
YEARS." S. 30:2-4
According to Yusuf Ali the Arabic word for "a few years," Bidh'un, signifies a period of
three to nine years. It amazes us that a prophecy from God would not specify the exact
time of the victory, seeing that God is all-knowing and all-wise, declaring the end from the
beginning. For God to guess that the Romans would win in "a few years" as opposed to
specifying the exact year, is inconsistent with the belief in an Omniscient, Omnipotent
Being.
Perhaps Shabir can explain why God would speak as if he were a man and use the vague
expression, "a few years", when signifying the period of time it would take the Romans to
be victorious over their enemies. Was God unable to pinpoint precisely when the victory
would take place? And how does Shabir reconcile such usage with his view of revelation
where the personality of the prophet is not used to convey God's words, something foreign
to the Holy Bible.
Shabir:
Show them the Qur'an:
Have they not considered the Qur'an with care? Had it been from other than
Allah they would surely have found therein much discrepancy (surah 4:82).
Response:
Since the Quran claims to have no discrepancies, Shabir might be able to explain the
following passages and harmonize them to our satisfaction. Hopefully, he will not simply
retort the typical Muslim response that a translation is not the Quran, or that we do not
know Arabic and therefore fail to appreciate its beauty:
To forgive or not to forgive?
According to Sura 4:48, 116, God will not forgive shirk (i.e., worshipping others beside
God):
"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with him; but He forgiveth
anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise
a sin most heinous indeed."
"Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth
whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah,
hath strayed far, far away (from the right)."
Yet, in the very same Surah, v.153, God does forgive shirk:
"...yet they [the Israelites] worshipped the calf even after clear signs had
come to them; even so We forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of
authority..."
To those who might suggest that shirk was not applicable at the time of Moses, and was
forgivable, let them be reminded of S. 6:88 where after speaking of Abraham (v.83), Isaac
and Jacob (v.84), Moses, Job, Jesus, Joseph, Noah, David, Solomon etc. God states that,
"Had they served other gods besides Him, their labours would have been vain indeed."
What is the length of a Day in God's sight?
"... a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning."
S. 32:5
"... a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years." S. 70:4
Which is it, 50,000 or 1,000 years? This is an error of 49,000 years! Or are we to simply
assume that God does not know how many number of years does his day equal according
to our reckoning?
How many days of Creation?
According to S. 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 the heavens and earth were created in six
days. Yet, in S. 41:9-12 the length of time is listed as eight days:
Say: Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days and do ye join
equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the worlds.
He sat on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed
blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in
due proportion, in Four Days in accordance with (the needs of) those who
seek (sustenance).
Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They
said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
So He completed them as seven firmaments in Two Days, and He assigned to
each heaven its duty and command. (Ali)
Hence, according to this passage we arrive at this calculation: 2 + 4 + 2 = 8.
Yusuf Ali indicates in his footnote that, "this is a difficult passage..." and tries to
reconcile the difficulties by inferring that the four days of filling the earth includes the
two days of creating it in the previous verse (9).
The only difficulty with this interpretation is the fact that v.10 mentions formation of
mountains and its nourishment taking place concurrently within four days, an
impossibility had the earth's structure not been created beforehand.
Another possibility that the Muslims use is the notion that the initial creation of the earth
in its pre-biotic state took place at the same time that the heavens were formed, since
both constituted one gaseous mass, making the two days of vv. 9 and 12, parallel
times. This is inferred from the Arabic word, thumma, "moreover." According to
modern Muslim exegetes the word can either refer to sequential time or to parallel
action. Hence, it is presumed that thumma here refers to a parallel act, where both the
heavens and earth were created simultaneously.
If the passage is speaking of a parallel action the verse should have indicated this by
saying, "Then He turned to the heavens and the earth, when they were only smoke,"
since both were part of that smoke. Yet, the verse indicates that the earth was formed
already when the heavens were still smoke, a clear error.
Furthermore, it might be true that the word thumma came to have more then one meaning, but this does not explain to us what the word meant to Muhammad or those closest to the revelation. For the meaning, we must go to the earliest Islamic sources.
The following traditions are taken entirely from The History of al-Tabari, Volume 1- General Introduction and from the Creation to the Flood (trans. Franz Rosenthal, State University of New York Press, Albany 1989), pp. 187-193:
"We have stated before that time is but hours of night and day and that the hours are but
traversal by the sun and the moon of the degrees of the sphere. Now then, this being so, there is
(also) a sound tradition from the Messenger of God told us by Hannad b. al-Sari, who also said
that he read all of the hadith (to Abu Bakr)- Abu Bakr b. `Ayyash- Abu Sa'd al-Baqqal- `Ikrimah-
Ibn Abbas: The Jews came to the Prophet and asked him about the creation of the heavens and
the earth. He said: God created the earth on Sunday and Monday. He created the mountains and
the uses they possess on Tuesday. On Wednesday, He created trees, water, cities and the
cultivated barren land. These are four (days). He continued (citing the Qur'an): `Say: Do you
really not believe in the One Who created the earth in two days, and set up others like Him? That
is the Lord of the worlds. He made it firmly anchored (mountains) above it and blessed it and
decreed that it contain the amount of food it provides, (all) in four days, equally for those asking'-
for those who ask. On Thursday, He created heaven. On Friday, He created the stars, the sun,
the moon, and the angels, until three hours remained. In the first of these three hours He created
the terms (of human life), who would live and who would die. In the second, He cast harm upon
everything that is useful for mankind. And in the third, (He created) Adam and had him dwell in
Paradise. He commanded Iblis to prostrate himself before Adam, and He drove Adam out of
Paradise at the end of the hour. When the Jews asked: What then, Muhammad? He said: `Then
He sat straight upon the Throne.' The Jews said: You are right, if you had finished, they said,
with: Then He rested. Whereupon the Prophet got very angry, and it was revealed: `We have
created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and fatigue did not
touch Us. Thus be patient with what you say.'"
"According to al-Muthanna- al-Hajjaj- Hammad- `Ata' b. al-Sa'ib- `Ikrimah: The Jews asked
the Prophet: What about Sunday? The Messenger of God replied: On it, God created the earth and
spread it out. They asked about Monday, and he replied: On it, He created Adam. They asked
about Tuesday, and he replied: On it, He created the mountains, water, and so on. They asked
about Wednesday, and he replied: Food. They asked about Thursday, and he replied: He created
the heavens. They asked about Friday, and he replied: God created night and day. Then, when
they asked about Saturday and mentioned God's rest (ing on it), he exclaimed: God be praised!
God then revealed: `We have created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six
days, and fatigue did not touch Us.'"
Al-Tabari then comments:
"The two reports transmitted by us from the Messenger of God have made it clear that the sun
and the moon were created after God had created many things of His creation. That is because
the hadith of Ibn Abbas on the authority of the Messenger of God indicates that God created the
sun and the moon on Friday. If this is so, earth and heaven and what was in them, except the
angles and Adam, had been created before God created the sun and the moon. All this (thus)
existed while there was no light and no day, since night and day are but nouns designating hours
known through the traversal by the sun and the moon of the course of the sphere. Now, if it is
correct that the earth and the heaven and the what was between them, except what we have
mentioned, were in existence when there was no sun and no moon, the conclusion is that all
existed when there was no night or day. The same (conclusion results from) the following hadith
of Abu Hurayrah reported on the authority of the Messenger of God: God created light on
Wednesday- meaning by `light' the sun, if God wills."
These traditions clearly affirm that the earliest Muslims, Muhammad included, believed that the heavens
and the constellations were created after the earth. This is a gross error of science! Perhaps Shabir
can explain.
Question # 5 : What happened to Paul's first letter to the Corinthians?
Their answer:
What do you mean? We have it right here in the Bible. Look!
The truth:
They don't have it. What they show you is not the first letter Paul wrote to the Corinthians. In
this very letter, Paul reminds the Corinthians that he had already written to them a letter before
this one. Read verses 9 and 11 in the following passage from Paul's so-called first letter to the
Corinthians, chapter 5:
9. In my letter I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators ...
11. But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother
that is a fornicator ...
Obviously, in verse 9 above, Paul is referring to what he had written in a previous letter.
In verse 11, Paul is making a change to his previous instruction. Compare below the following two
instructions from Paul's previous letter and his so-called first letter:
COMPARE BELOW:
Paul's previous instruction on this side:
"In my letter I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators . . ."
Paul's new instruction on this side:
"But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother
that is a fornicator ... "
What we are discussing here is not the change in instruction issued by Paul. I have spelled out
the matter in detail only to equip you to deal with anyone who tries to say that even in verse 9
Paul is referring to his current letter. Some people will try to convince you that there was no
previous letter. But now you know how to demonstrate this truth to such a person.
So, now, where is that previous letter? Obviously, it is lost.
Response:
This is actually a difficulty since we are not aware whether Paul was referring to a
previous letter that is lost, or a letter that was written to another group that had also been
circulating amongst the Corinthians. For example, in Colossians 4:16, Paul states:
"After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the Church of
the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea."
Evidence suggests that the letter from Laodicea, not to the Laodicea, refers to the letter
to the Ephesians. This letter was a cyclical letter sent throughout Asia Minor and would
have circulated throughout Laodicea and eventually to Corinth. Hence, Paul's statement in
1 Cor. 5:9 could be referring to an epistle that was written with all Christians in mind and
that had been received by the church in Corinth.
It is also quite possible that the letter referred to by Paul was material that was eventually
added to 2 Corinthians. Noted Christian writers Norm Geisler and Thomas Howe state:
"... others believe that the letter referred to (in 1 Cor. 5:9) may not be lost at
all, but is part of an existing book in the Bible For example, it could be part of
what we know as 2 Corinthians (chapters 10-13), which some believe was put
together with chapters 1-9. In support of this is offered the fact that chapters
1-9 have a decidedly different tone from the rest o the Book of 2 Corinthians
(chapters 10-13). This may indicate that it was written on a different occasion.
In addition, they point to the use of the word 'now' (in 5:11) in contrast to an
implied 'then' when the former book was written. They also note that Paul
refers to 'letters' (plural) he had written in 2 Corinthians." (Geisler & Howe,
When Critics Ask- A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties [Victor Books,
1992], p. 453)
Another possibility is that Paul was actually speaking of 1 Corinthians itself:
"... others believe that Paul is referring to the present Book of 1 Corinthians
in 1 Corinthians 5:9, that is, to the very book which he was writing at the time.
In support of this they note the following... Even though the Greek aorist
tense is used here ('I wrote') may refer to a past letter, it could also refer to
the book at hand. This is called an 'epistolary aorist,' because it refers to the
very book in which it is being used... The aorist tense often implies decisive
action, in which Paul would be saying something like this: 'I am now decisively
writing to you.' This certainly fits the context of this passage in which he is
urging the church to take immediate action to excommunicate a wayward
member... An 'epistolary aorist' is used by Paul elsewhere in this very letter
when he said, 'I am not writing these things that it may b done so in my case'
(1 Cor. 9:15, NASB)." (Ibid.)
No matter from what angle we look at it, 1 Corinthians 5:9 remains a difficult passage.
Yet, it is no more difficult then the following examples taken from Islamic sources:
Malik's Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.8.26:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from al-Qaqa ibn
Hakim that Abu Yunus, the mawla of A'isha, umm al-muminin said, "A'isha
ordered me to write out a Qur'an for her. She said, 'When you reach this ayat,
let me know, "Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand
obedient to Allah."' When I reached it I told her, and she dictated to me,
'Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and
stand obedient to Allah.' A'isha said, 'I heard it from the Messenger of Allah,
may Allah bless him and grant him peace.'"
Malik's Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.8.27:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that Amr ibn Rafi said,
"I was writing a Qur'an for Hafsa, umm al-muminin, and she said, 'When you
reach this ayat, let me know, "Guard the prayers carefully and the middle
prayer and stand obedient to Allah."' When I reached it I told her and she
dictated to me, 'Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr
prayer and stand obedient to Allah.'"
Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3421:
Narrated Aisha:
It had been revealed in the Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage
unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's
Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) died and it was before that time (found) in the
Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims).
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say,
"We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy
Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that
Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him
who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime
is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have
memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle
carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." (See also: Vol. 8,
No. 817 and Vol. 9, No. 424)
We must ask Shabir where are these verses alluded to by these Islamic sources? Why are
they not in the Quran? And what ramifications does this have on Allah guarding his word
intact?
In summary, we must reiterate that we believe that the Holy Bible contains only those
books that God in his sovereignty wanted as part of his infallible canon. This is something
that we take solely on faith since we cannot "prove" that the entire canon of the Bible is
exactly what God intended his infallible rule of faith to consist of. This is precisely the case
with the Quran, since Muslims have no definitive proof that the present Quranic text is
exactly what Allah wanted for Muslims.
Shabir:
Now, if someone believes that Paul's letters are the words of God, he or she
has to also believe that some of the Words of God are lost forever. But will
Jehovah's Witnesses believe this? Ask them to read this Bible verse.
The green grass has dried up, the blossom has withered; but as for the Word
of our God, it will last to time indefinite. (Isaiah 40:8)
How does this reconcile with the fact that one letter of Paul has disappeared?
Response:
Before attacking the Holy Bible, Shabir should worry about reconciling the loss of certain
verses and chapters of the Quran with the following verses:
"The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice; there is NONE who
can change His words. He both heareth and knoweth." S. 6:115
"None can change the words of God..." S. 6:34
"There is no changing the words of God; that is the mighty triumph." S. 10:65
If there is no changing the words of Allah how is it that we find omissions, deletions and
verbal variants to the Quranic text which Shabir believes to be God's word? How do we
reconcile these verses with the fact that the Quran says that Allah does change his words?
"And for whatever verse we abrogate and cast into oblivion We bring a better
or the like of it; knowest thou not that God is powerful over everything?" S.
2:106
"And when We EXCHANGE a verse in place of another verse and God
knows very well what He is sending down -- they say, 'Thou art a mere forger!'
Nay, but the most of them have no knowledge." S. 16:101
As we have indicated, we believe all that God has chosen to form his written word has not
disappeared, but has been preserved till now. Any so-called "lost" books are not the word
of God, since had they been God in his sovereignty would have preserved them.
Shabir:
Muslims understand that God can reveal a message and then allow it to be
forgotten. But a Jehovah's Witness does not accept that belief. They think
once revealed, always preserved. So they have to deal with this question. The
loss of Paul's letter is a good indication that the recipients of Paul's letter did
not take it as the Word of God. If they did, wouldn't they try to preserve it?
Why did they let the Word of God disappear like that? Now someone may say
that the rest of Paul's letter were preserved, and this proves that the people
who preserved them regarded them as the Word of God. Let us not stretch
things so far.
Firstly, no one knows how many other letters of Paul are really lost, and we
still have no satisfactory answer for that problem. We have just stumbled upon
evidence of one letter being lost. What other evidence will yet turn up?
Secondly, people keep letters and other writings for all kinds of reasons.
Perhaps people thought the letters of Paul contain important things. Others
may have kept such letters with a view to refute the teachings they contain.
We have not enough details to settle this mater, but we can safely conclude
that just because someone kept some letters of Paul does not mean they took
the letters as coming from God. They knew the letters were from Paul.
Response:
Actually, Shabir does not know how much of the Quran is missing in light of the following
traditions:
"Many (of the passages) of the Qur'an that were sent down were known by
those who died on the day of Yamama ... BUT THEY WERE NOT KNOWN
(BY THOSE WHO) SURVIVED THEM, NOR WERE THEY WRITTEN
DOWN, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the
Qur'an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them." (Ibn Abi
Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.23).
"It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar
who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an'. How
does he know what all of it is WHEN MUCH OF THE QURAN HAS
DISAPPEARED? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'"
(as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524)."
Narrated Ibn Abbas: Umar said "Ubayy was the best of us in the recitation (of
the Qur'an) YET WE LEAVE SOME OF WHAT HE RECITES". Ubayy says,
"I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Apostle (saw) and will not leave it
for anything whatever". But Allah said: None of Our revelations do we
abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or
similar (2.106). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 489).
We ask Shabir where are those verses that Umar claimed was part of what Ubayy recited.
If he claims that they were abrogated he is still left with a problem since the present
Quranic text contains both the abrogated and the abrogating verses. Or where are the
verses which had only been known to those reciters slain at the battle of Yamama?
None of Paul's inspired writings have been lost since all God-breathed scriptures have
been preserved. The fact that certain writings of Paul have possibly been lost, implies that
God in his sovereignty did not inspire them or chose to include them into his infallible
written text.
Shabir:
Show them the Qur'an:
Surely We have revealed the scripture (the Qur'an) and surely We are its
guardian (surah 15:9).
Gently explain to them that God protects the Qur'an so that none of it will
ever be lost.
Response:
In actuality, S. 15:9 does not limit preservation only to the Quran since the term itself
does not appear in the verse. Rather, the verse affirms that Allah would preserve the
Reminder which he had sent down to man. This Reminder includes the Holy Bible that was
available in Muhammad's day:
"We have, without doubt sent down THE MESSAGE (Zhikra); And We will
assuredly guard it (from corruption)." S. 15:9 - Y. Ali
That this includes the Holy Bible is made clear in the following citations:
"And before thee We sent none but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If
ye realise this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri)." S.
16:43 - Y. Ali
"Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We
granted inspiration: if ye know this not, ask of those who possess THE
MESSAGE (Zhikri)." S. 21:7 - Y. Ali
"Before this, We wrote in the Psalms, after THE REMINDER (Zhikri): `My
servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.'" S. 21:105
"We did aforetime give Moses the Guidance, and We gave the Book in
inheritance to the Children of Israel - A Guide and A REMINDER (Zhikraa)
to men of understanding." S. 40:53-54 - Y. Ali
These passages establish that the revelation given to Moses, David and the Book which
Jews and Christians possessed at the time of Muhammad is also part of that Reminder
which God sent down and promised to preserve. Hence, for Shabir to assert that the Bible
is corrupt basically means that God failed to guard his message from corruption, breaking
his promise of insuring its preservation.
In fact, Ibn Abbas, Islam's premiere commentator, affirms that none of God's book have
been corrupted. In Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitaab Al-Tawheed, Baab Qawlu Allah Ta'ala, "Bal
Huwa Qur'aanun Majeed, fi lawhin Mahfooth" (i.e. in Sahih al-Bukhari, Book "The
Oneness of God", the Chapter on Surat Al-Borooj (no. 85), Verses 21, 22 saying, "Nay
this is a Glorious Qur'an, (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved.") we find in a footnote
between 9.642 and 643:
"They corrupt the word" means "they alter or change its meaning." Yet no one is
able to change even a single word from any Book of God. The meaning is that
they interpret the word wrongly. [... and he continues to speak about how the
Qur'an is preserved ...]
This is the commentary of Abdullah Ibn Abbas, one of Muhammad's cousins and companions.
His opinions are held to be above the opinions and commentaries of all other Sheikhs who
are not Sahaba.
Conclusion
A careful examination of Ally's five points leaves much to be desired. Shabir applies
a methodology that can easily be used against Islam and the Quran. Shabir is guilty of
misquotation as well as gross misinterpretation of biblical passages. His writings leave
a lot to be desired.
In this post I will share some of the biblical evidences, which led the first Christians to the conclusion that the one true God is Triune by nature.
One True God
The Bible is clear that there is only one uncreated God who created and sustains all creation. The name
”Accepting James White’s Challenge to Provide an Exegesis of 1 John 5:1"
The following is Dr. David W. Allen's refutation to internet reformed apologist James R. White's butchering of 1 John 5:1 for the purpose of forcing his calvinistic misreading into it.
